Radical Authenticity and Love in Action: An Interview with Andrew Harvey and Chris Saade
I am so very grateful to be able to share a new episode from my podcast, The Messy Brilliance Show. This time, I had the pleasure of speaking with two extraordinary scholars, authors, and activists who also happen to be two of our most recent male Truthtellers: Andrew Harvey and Chris Saade.
Andrew and Chris co-authored one of my recommended summer reads: Evolutionary Love Relationships: Passion, Authenticity,and Activism. This book is a powerful testament to a cutting-edge paradigm not just for intimate partnerships, but for all of humanity.
Here’s a little more background on these two brilliant men:
Andrew Harvey is the founder director of the Institute of Sacred Activism, an international organization that invites concerned people to take up the challenge of our contemporary global crises by becoming inspired and effective agents of change. Andrew has taught at Oxford and Cornell University, as well as at various colleges and spiritual centers throughout the world. He has also written over 30 books and is a renowned scholar and activist on such topics as the sacred masculine and feminine, and the importance of infusing our our spirituality with sacred activism.
Chris Saade is an author, life coach, psychological and philosophical teacher, and the co-director of the Olive Branch Center with his wife, Jessie Thompson. After closing his psychotherapy private practice, Chris spent 20 years training therapists, coaches, and ministers in his two models: Integra: 6 Keys for Heart-Centered Living, and Individual Authenticity and Global Solidarity. He has led nearly 250 multi-day cutting-edge workshops for professionals and the general public. Born in Beirut, Lebanon, he was involved in peace groups before and during the Lebanese war. Those difficult years led him to develop a great respect for freedom, authenticity, diversity, and peace.
Together, Chris and Andrew have brought to life a vision for how love has the power to solve some of the most pressing crises of our time. This interview is a spirited and necessary discussion that is all about the evolution of a new humanity…and how we can find ourselves through our current global dark night of the soul.
“What this destruction is preparing is the creation of a new kind of humanity…devoted to justice and compassion,” Andrew says. And the path there might sound unorthodox—it’s through our authenticity and our ability to bring the whole of our hearts, minds, and bodies into our experience of being alive on this planet.
This also extends to our romantic relationships and what it means to be ‘two freedoms in solidarity with the world,” according to Chris. In their book and in this conversation, Chris and Andrew outline the new tenets of romantic relationships, which must value freedom, individual authenticity, and a shared vision for the world.
Our conversation was rich, fruitful, and deep. We discussed everything from divine grace to what Andrew refers to as “marrying the innocence of the dove and the wisdom of the serpent”—that is, connecting our light with our shadow, and our divine consciousness with our human condition. As we make the shift from a “positive” psychology and spirituality to an authentic psychology and spirituality that honors our wholeness and complexity, Andrew and Chris also note the vital importance of connecting the feminine and masculine in ourselves, our relationships, and our world. As we learn to heal the wounds that have kept us from moving into this sacred union, we will discover that we have the power to change our lives, our definitions of love, and our understanding of the next step in our evolution as a species. I hope you love this conversation as much as I do!
2:00 What sacred activism is and how it can lift us out of crisis
6:40 Why we must embody our wish for a transformed humanity in our actions
7:55 The profound implications of authenticity for our evolution as human beings
9:30 The birth of Evolutionary Love Relationships
12:22 Why love in action is one of the most radical ideas in spiritual thought—and romantic relationships
16:00 How knowing our core personalities and the desires of our hearts can transform our relationships
19:44 Authenticity = fidelity to your divine consciousness and your human self
22:50 “God is working through chaos, terror, horror, and death as much as through order, ecstasy, and peace”
26:30 Why anger, sadness, and anxiety are tremendously important feelings that we must reclaim
30:30 The challenge of merging the divine feminine and divine masculine in our relationships; and how we can redefine our connection to these concepts to heal ourselves and our world
35:35 The joining-together of strength and tenderness, courage and vulnerability, and why they contribute to intimacy
36:40 What it means to ground your life in sacred joy
40:40 Celebration as a way of approaching anger, fear, despair, grief, and defeat
47:20 How the leadership of women has opened our eyes to authenticity and the importance of relationships
Photo credit: Ginger Wagoner, Photosynthesis, Inc.